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Podcast: The Insiders Guide to the Sales Matrix for E-commerce.

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Insiders Guide to the Sales Matrix for E-commerce

Dave Granfield:

Hey, James, I’ve changed things around a little bit. I mean like the office, right? Like, yeah. You know what I didn’t do. I didn’t sorry for everyone that’s listening to this podcast right now.

Dave Granfield:

I didn’t turn my little ambient light on in the background. Oh, that does make a world of difference. It surely makes me look angelic. Not sure what it’s going to do for you. Right. I’m taking the backseat to this podcast. This is all you,  you kind of told me what we were talking about, but I’ve largely forgotten already. Oh. Another package just turned up. How awesome is that? Good timing. Good timing. More podcasting equipment. Come in. All right. I’m just gonna leave it to you. What are we talking about today?

James Staunton:

All right. So we’re going to forget what we really are going to call it, but the insider’s guide to marketing or social, and a lot of things that we kind of come up against and what we kind of find is still being used as practices and really how we kind of approach that on different levels. So going to try and simplify it as much as possible. 

Can we simplify it down to some dot points? Yeah,

James Staunton:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I’ll, I’ll kind of refer to it as like a, a nine X or a three by three strategy. We’re also they’re the first three beams, super top broad being ultimately the best way they get the most out of any marketing, regardless of what it is.

Dave Granfield:

So like naught and cross board. All right. Perfect. That sets the scene. We’ll draw a little like noughts and cross-board on the screen. Thank you. And all right, so take it away, mate.

James Staunton:

So the top of the top three very simple is the best way to get the maximum amount of any form of marketing. So obviously you need to acquire new customers as many customers as possible. Ideally then how can you get each customer spending more each time? So increasing your average order value or value of that conversion, and then how can you get those customers coming back and purchasing again from it? So very simple at its core, but certainly there’s a lot that goes into

Dave Granfield:

Like how to make money in business, right? Like the fundamentals of, yeah.

James Staunton:

That’s as simple as that. And I’ll try to make it as simple as possible and break it down to its smallest incremental form. Cause it’s usually a lot easier to achieve it.

Dave Granfield:

Okay. So I repeat those top ones for us, again, generating more Conversions. Yep.

James Staunton:

Get them to spend. Spend more each time increasing the conversion value and then how you can get them coming back and purchase. 

Dave Granfield:

All right. That’s pretty much all I tell everyone on a phone call that I’m with, right. The three ways in business to make money, get new customers, get them to spend more, get them to come back again. Cool. All right. So sales 101. What’s the next complexity around this?

James Staunton:

So when we look at new customers I’m assuming that all of them you know, very proud to, to be a part of is that we implement something it’s called a blended campaign. So if we look at how we achieved, number one within that sort of blended campaign, you have your overall sales funnel. And in particular, with social, it’s kind of broken into three key aspects of that funnel. So the top of the funnel, which is one that I’ve seen most people are probably aware of, very good for awareness and sometimes referred to as a reach campaign. 

And that’s about as getting in front of as many branding users as possible of relevance. So then you tend to you at the bottom of the funnel, very good for sort of revenue-generating strategies, kind of conversion goals. You see, the type of ads in the bottom of funnel will tend to be shot now, call to actions like product-focused and what we usually come up against, especially with clients that come across from a right, is usually this focus on one or other. 

Usually, it’s dependent on how that conversation goes. You stay, we want to generate as much website traffic, which certainly doesn’t necessarily resolve to sales or they want to see a row last. And then they focused on the bottom of the funnel. Now the problem, usually that goes hand in hand with maybe targeting things like their existing audience, and you tend to get quite good results quite quickly, but they stagnate very quickly.

Dave Granfield:

Sure. You’re running out of runway, right? You’re running out of people to show an ad to. Yeah.

James Staunton:

And in some cases, you actually see a few very cheeky strategies where they go top of funnel strategy, the bottom of funnel style ad. And it’s kind of like asking someone to marry you on the first day.

Dave Granfield:

Yeah. Sorry, sorry. The 12 stages of intimacy I’ll link to that book below, but you don’t walk up to a pretty girl in the straight, straight and say, will you marry me? Or you don’t walk up to you, don’t go from eye contact to the body to body contact. Because like, if you skip, sorry, it’s like 12 stages of intimacy. If you skip more than two of those stages at any one point in time, it’s essentially assault. Right. It’s unconsented. And that’s what a lot of people are doing in marketing.

James Staunton:

Yeah. And it’s, it’s kind of like, yeah, it’s, you know, asking someone to marry you on the first date. It’s probably not the smartest thing to do so obviously you ask the question enough times somebody that takes going to say yes, but it’s probably not a reliable strategy.

Dave Granfield:

Casey, my wife, I was actually the lunatic that said yes, pretty much. So I digress for a second. I met my wife on a dating website, not ashamed to say that she liked my profile, my copywriting so much that she sent me her number straight away. The first message she sent me was a number that was direct. That was seven years ago. I sent her a message back saying, isn’t that a bit of a, like a problem, like, is that a security problem for you? Are you feeling safe right now? You’ve just given me your number. And she’s like, Oh no, I trust you. That was seven years ago.

James Staunton:

So my, my strategy with my not-yet wife, but having that. So we’ve been together for 10 years. So I saw the ring that you bought her. That’s pretty awesome. Hey, here’s a good ring. Yeah. The good story involved with that look for another time. But yeah, she was the one who was direct and then I would’ve put my strategy more so as retargeting.

Dave Granfield:

Attribution window wise, 365 days.

James Staunton:

Yeah. Yeah. I followed her around lots of different places.

Dave Granfield:

All right. So back to it. So the top line of your nine-box matrix was how to get more sales. The second line is it just the three phases of advertising that we do? So the top of the funnel, middle of the funnel

James Staunton:

And it’s a payment to respect each step because each step plays a key part of the overall strategy, which is generating more customers or how to get more people into that top of the funnel and then feed that through to apartment, sending them through to a purchase or a conversion running in almost all cases. There’s hardly any focus on that middle of the funnel, which if you think about it, essentially that links brand new users to purchases. So it’s probably one of the most important parts of the face.

Dave Granfield:

Yeah. And you’re not skipping that stage of intimacy, I guess, in doing that. And so as a rule of thumb on the technical side of things with our agency, it’s a, we might run up to 70% of someone’s budget on top of the funnel because we’re continually introducing new people to a brand, right? 

If we’re not continually introducing new people, we’re not growing their business. We then run up to sort of 20% to the middle of the funnel. How do we educate them? How do we motivate them? We’ve made them problem aware or product aware. Are they going to research your competitors? Are they going to sit and think about it? Have you got enough brand proof? Have you got enough social proof that they’re going to make that purchase 20% of someone’s overall budget? 

We allocate to that middle of the funnel journey and try to get people to progress down to then we spend 5% roughly on a retargeting strategy. So will you marry me? Here’s my website link, buy the product. Did you do the maths? Then?

James Staunton:

There are, there are about 95%. 

Dave Granfield:

Well, yeah, so there’s 5% left. So I’ll come back to all that 5% is because I think we might cover it. Or we might not cover it later on, but if we haven’t covered it, I’ll come back to the end of the podcast. So 70% of any accounts and budget that we run could be top of the funnel, brand awareness, never heard of you before introducing them to you. the 20% middle of the funnel, educating, motivating giving assurance fought the scent to the actual conversion of asking for the business.

James Staunton:

I hear it’s very easy as well to folks in the bottom front or causes that’s where that’s like, if you’re into football or soccer, it’s like your goal score. It’s going to get all the credit, but because that’s resulting in dollars, but often the legwork has been done a lot earlier in the piece by talking about funnels though.

Dave Granfield:

I like to call the band captain of the B team. Right. Like, yeah. Awesome. Right. But you’re kind of not right. You’re still not the 18th. Yeah. and the biggest thing there is your, you might get a high return figure and a lot of small agencies and freelancers will focus heavily on their budget on the bottom of funnel because it generates a high railway. And at the end of the month, the report looks fantastic to a customer, right? Like I got you a 25 times return on ad spend, but I didn’t introduce a single new person to your business. But the people who found you purchased.

James Staunton:

It’s come up a few times in recent conversations. And when you explain it and the importance of having the full-funnel sort of optimises, what’s the point in, we could generate a 20 times return on spend flow month one. But if you’re getting, if you’re moving backwards in a month, two months, three, then if you look at the bigger picture, it’s really a bit of a false, false performance. It’s kind of all we gearing you up in the right way for quick wins or are we looking at long-term growth and success for your brand? So yeah. So,

Dave Granfield:

All right, so we’ve done the top line. We’ve talked about the middle line. You’ve got me intrigued, what’s this bottom three sections of this matrix.

James Staunton:

So it’s kind of, it’s very simple talk. So at the talking thing, so essentially you need to target the right people which is actually probably one of the easier things to do. You build out custom audiences, look like audiences, set your criteria. 

Obviously takes a lot, know daily testing and optimizing then making sure you’re the right place and we’re at time. So look at your audience, go, are you, is your typical female, 18 to 35. We know they’re more prevalent on Instagram versus Facebook.

If you’re broadening your audience and your targeting 40 plus, then we know that shifts towards unlocking the mind shifts back towards Facebook. So where is your demographic more prevalent? How can we maximize that? Things? Right? Time would matter with our scheduling. We know statistically 86% of everyone under the ages of 35 reach for their phone within 15 minutes a week. Now I do that.

Dave Granfield:

I’ve gotta be honest. I do it to

James Staunton:

Do that, but the idea that now waltz, no one’s going to purchase anything within 15 minutes away. You cannot. Usually, we are typically reaching on social media, checking emails, scrolling through news feeds and free stories. 

We’re susceptible to engaging with a new creative, like a new brand with creating content for the very first time. At that point. Now on the flip side, you go to the mobile phone or most orders tend to happen after 6:00 PM. So all you get in front of the right person on the right platform at the right time. Cool. Yeah.

Dave Granfield:

So is that the first point on the bottom or is that 0.1 0.2? Okay. So audience and targeting time frame to get them and the right way, the right way. Explain that to me. Cause there are lots of wrong ways, right?

James Staunton:

So people forget that quite often we see ads go out. That’s how a business owner likes to be advertised too. And we kind of sometimes can forget that everyone interacts differently. Everyone likes different stuff. Some people, some people for tax, some people for non-tax and very concise. 

Some people like static or lifestyle. And so it’s important that I think about what used to be able to get away with social media and unfortunately, some places still practice where you can create three or three ads, which is vaguely relevant to the majority of people. The platforms got more competitive. It’s now when we’re more used to being advertised to like people. So it’s about being more specific to the end-user. So make being able to showcase your brand and your products to the right person, but in the right way, based on how they’ve been treated.

Dave Granfield:

So can I ask you a question there? I’m not going to name this customer, but they’re a cause we’ve just churned them as if they’re no longer with us. We had big disagreements with them. They didn’t want to look at the data and where we love data. They wanted to sell their pyjama range and they wanted all of their ads to be that over the pyjama range, but the genuine ads that were getting the sales and performing better were the bed linen ads. Now, honestly, I’m going to say they fired us because we wouldn’t do what they wanted.

But at the end of the day, the problem was residing in the fact that every time we pushed back and put the Bedell in and ads up that were more profitable, they sold more. And it just so happens that people purchased pyjamas on the way through the checkout, every time they got their way. And we ran the pyjama ads, crickets, right? Radio silence, people didn’t purchase.

But there was a big thing about that product-market fit and the audience responding that the data showed and we could prove, and it was very accurate transparency of the ads that were performing better. And it’s really sad and unfortunate that customers learn on the go. We get us because they would go to go gangbusters in that space, high-value product, great average order value. And we were starting to find an audience that was really receptive to the ad top.

James Staunton:

Yeah. I think you find that what you think you’ll say you want initially can often when you end up experiencing it and realizing it, sometimes isn’t exactly what you actually did want where all the time is that we want performance, we want returns. We want our why. And then you get it might end up being more of a creative or visual aspect.

Dave Granfield:

Yeah. Well, I had another customer, a toy business that we worked with for a long, long, long time. This particular toy that they’d run out of stock of all the time. Now they could get restock of it. But every time that toy ran out of stock, they wanted the ads turned off for it. The thing is though people were coming to the website based on that particular ad, they weren’t purchasing that toy.

They were walking away with hundreds of dollars of other toys. And every time we turn that off, because that particular skew was out of stock temporarily, their results tanked. So in your advertising space, it’s not always going to be the product or the message or the creative content that they see that they’re actually going to purchase. It’s just a raw card to get them to the website.

James Staunton:

Yeah. And it’s it and you need to task all that. You need to track all that. You need to understand what people are doing once they hit your website because it’s almost from the point of being advertised to, to get into the website and one sort of journey. And then there’s a secondary journey that they go on. Yeah. So it’s sort of a, we’re obviously facing and that’s important. That’s why it is social and Google? It is, it needs looking at daily because people’s online behaviours change so regularly.

Dave Granfield:

All right. Your sales matrix, everything covering from getting more customers through to how you interact and show messages to them. Brofie, can you do up a bit of a diagram to explain this? You know, I think of it like naught and crosses board and we’ve got three rows, three columns do the columns interact with each other if I don’t there’s your homework. Yeah.

James Staunton:

And honestly, the reason a lot of places wouldn’t adopt that sort of strategy is that it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of work. It takes daily optimization. It takes a lot of targeting. It takes a lot of ads to be creative because obviously, you don’t want to target the same person on the same app because then it becomes obvious to that person and they become less engaged. So when you need to, we might create, I know this differs from client to client, but it might be upwards of 40 different ads, just so cause I ad needs to reflect where that person’s in the sales funnel, top of the funnel is going to be very different, the bottom and mid and also reflect how they’ve previously interacted and what they learned.

Dave Granfield:

So we talk often with customers that those ads are going to be different for different audiences in different stages of consideration. A, you know, say you’re marketing to an affluent mom between 35 and 40. Now my coastal Byron Bay mum will interact differently to an ad at a top of the funnel than a site in a Melbourne mum different styles, different lifestyle, different thought considerations. There are two different versions of an ad that might end up driving to the same consideration or the same product in the middle of the funnel of that particular journey. The barn by ma mum might be in a completely different climate in a time of year. So we had like, some is really weird right now in Australia. They, it’s not as warm as it usually should be. The bar and Bay moms are wearing bikinis on the beach. The Melbourne moms are wearing hoodies and sweatshirts.

James Staunton:

You can be an example of even subtle differences. Let’s say you have bombed 100%  bamboo pyjamas as an example. Yeah. You might be with the same product to very similar looking people, but one person prefers the signing angled about it’s sustainable. It’s environmentally friendly. It’s a good product. Like the material is environmentally friendly. The other person likes that it’s breathable and the quality of it. So understanding what people like is a big aspect of obviously what we do.

Dave Granfield:

Awesome, man, let’s wrap it up there. So James has just given us a matrix of nine things to consider in your sales. It covers everything from your funnel journey, your progression through a consideration phase. It’s covering obviously how to make more sales on your website or your store. And then it’s talking about the timeframes and the different audiences. So Brofie’s going to create a bit of a digital download. It’ll be a PDF in the description. If you’re on YouTube we will make sure that we post like a post on Instagram and Facebook and all our socials have a download for that as well. James, thanks a lot, mate. Oh

James Staunton:

No, you’ve got 5% remaining. Fine.

Dave Granfield:

Good man. Good man. All right. So coming back to the consideration phase in the funnel top of the funnel, 70% of our budget, we might allocate to a top of funnel audience. So introducing brand awareness and introducing people to your brand then 20% of that might be that consideration and motivation. We need to educate them through that process of purchasing from you. 5% is the retargeting strategy. Essentially let’s get that conversion game pain in front of them and ask them for their business. And that leaves 5%. And that last 5% ties in with point number three for you on the top, right of your, my matrix. And it’s getting them back to purchase again, we will reserve 5% of a customer’s budget to a win-back campaign or a social proof campaign where we’re asking that customer, how they felt about our product or service and asking them to either come back and purchase again or refer that brand or that business to someone else to purchase.

Dave Granfield:

Hey, tied it all in, do love your conversations, love the work you’ve been doing for the agency lately. If you haven’t had James on the phone, get him on the phone just for an audit because he’s got some amazing knowledge and he’s really attentive to listening to how brands and businesses are performing and how they could use Facebook ads or Google ads or LinkedIn ads or whatever is going to be suited for you. The best thing about having James in the organization so far is he’s learned to say no, just as quickly as we have said no. So if you had a conversation with James and he doesn’t think you’re in the right fit in that matrix, or if he doesn’t think you’re ready, he’s going to say no. And he’s going to give you homework, homework to go back and make some improvements. And a lot of the time it’s going to be maybe in those first one or two points of how to get customers, how to convert them. How’s the website experience, right?

James Staunton:

You want to make sure customers are set like for us, you know, we’re a boutique we need w we’re not successful as a business if there’s not a long term success for clients. So if things aren’t in place to build towards that. So things like websites following product, market fit, then it’s really in neither of our interests to look at that until we’re in a position where we’re setting them up.

Dave Granfield:

All right, James, love your work. If you enjoy that conversation with James today, please make sure you ask some comments below. If it’s, you’re viewing this on YouTube, reach out to us on our socials. We are ramping up our content, right? We’ve employed Brofie to do a lot of the marketing behind the scenes of the agency. There’s a bucket load of boxes coming at the moment. There’s $15,000 worth of camera gear, kind of piling up in the corner. And we’re going to open all of that in one go. 

I’m going to do an unboxing with my toys. It’s going to be Christmas, right? If you’re enjoying the content, if you want different conversations in this content, please comment below, please subscribe to our channels or our platforms and just like help us, help us understand if we’re doing the right thing by you and giving you the best information. Cheers, mate. Thank you. You

James Staunton:

Here was a pleasure. Good work.

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